Inliners International Forums General Discussion Drive Train Adapting a 1955 open drivetrain

Yeah, I'm guessing it will last my lifetime...

But if by chance I do wear it out, I'll rebuild it again.

I hope you do! '55 to now is 66 years so if you have to do it again in 2087 I hope I'm here to watch at over 150 years old. You still won't be older than your truck.

I vaguely remember you're older than me, but if I'm here after 2058, I'll be pushing over 100.

I would think your roadster may be your last build? Or do you feel you still have more in 'ya? Seems like you can tinker on a Hot Rod for the rest of your life... And somehow I feel that hankering for a Hot Rod to tinker on after I get Keroppi in line...

There are a few more piles of junk that could be turned into projects and some I should get rid of. A guy is coming next week to take away a 413 inch Dodge flathead six my friend and I had plans for a few years ago.

Was that one of Bruce's engines? That guy had some cool stuff he collected, most certainly.

No this was my friend Vic. He and I pulled this monster out of a big Dodge truck. Our plan was to put it on a a chassis and run it at Bonneville in a vintage class. Then we found out the limit for vintage classes is 375 ci. It would have been a lakster and 413 ci would have put it in the B class where the record was near 300 mph. That speed added a lot of $afety equipment we could not afford. Several thousand just for tires.
I did a thread on it here while we were pulling it but all of the pictures have gone away. Here are some specs:
Bore& Stroke 4 1/16 X 5 5/16
413 ci
171 hp @ 3,200 rmp
424 ft. lbs. @ 1,200 rpm
8.5 to 1 CR
12 ports
head 9" X 30: 33 studs
4' from crank pulley to back of bell housing

I like the old Dodge trucks, in fact, funny you mention a Dodge truck. I saw this the same day you sent me that pic of the Diamond-T. This one has a V8 in it, and the Diamond-T was about 11 years older, quite an amazing reformation. This is not bad, seems done in fair taste.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/d/santa-rosa-1936-dodge-pickup-hotrod/7362414371.html

What type of truck was that 413ci motor in? That's a monster! That's an inline 6?

That said, for me it's all about getting my 235 in as good of shape I can get it, and get Keroppi going with the new drive train, not to get distracted with other old trucks...but that 413ci must be one torque monster, not sure how that 424 ft.lb compares to the 235 ci I have, but it must be a lot higher.

It was in a BIG truck tahr had been converted to run a ball mill at an ore crushing operation with a belt drive. 424 ft pounds at 1200 rpm is impressive. It had a two cylinder air compressor for the brakes and came stock with dual carbs, ( two tiny Ball & Balls ) & geas exhaust headers.

Would you think about putting that in the '26, or is that slated for the 270 or 302? I think I have what I need with my 235, was just curious as you have a lot of options.

The '26 has a 153 Chevy II four cylinder that I'm building. The '53 has a 270 and I'm building a 292 for my '68 flatbed when it's turn comes.

Wait, wait, wait...isn't that 153 that engine they put in the Corvair? It's an air cooled engine?

I do remember you mentioned a Porsche, so it's not entirely surprising that you would have one of those engines, but if that is the case all I can say is, "you gotta be kidding me".

I'm just cleaning today...hoping to get primer and paint after it cools down a tad...I scrubbed with simple green, then used a green scotch brite with de-natured alcohol, now cleaning inside on the bench. The main case is my primary worry right now as I an start to reassemble the majority of the T5 with it done.

As you can see there is still some grease, I'm not sure if the etching primer will get past that, but a small brass wire sheel on the cordless drill is getting it to my satisfaction.

Cleanliness is next to....ah....impossible.

All engines are air cooled some just use air to cool hot water. No, this is an inline four cylinder the baby brother if the 194-292 six family. It is 2/3 of a 230 six. They were about 90 hp stock. They were used in Chevy IIs from '62-70 and in some vans and Jeeps. Kind of related to the Later 151 Iron Duke that found it way from little Pontiacs to S10s. Boat manufacturers like MerCrusier, Volvo, & OMC used them and the later bigger 181. Also used in farm and industrial equipment. Stout light engines with lots of potential.

Yeah, the Corvair had an air cooled engine (no water) with a long belt running up and around a pulley, it was an interesting setup. The engine itself didn't use water to cool. Sounds like your engine is more like the 2.2L 4cyl ??? I think that's what they put in the S10, and what my T5 came out if I understand it correctly.

If it's not a Corvair, it doesn't have a Corvair engine; it's unrelated to any other GM design.

You lost me there. How could an S10 engine not be a GM design? AFAIK the 2.2L 4cyl is a GM design.

The Corvair had a turbo-6 engine, which was a rear mounted engine that was air cooled like a Porsche engine. AFAIK, this was the only American car to be built with a rear mount air cooled engine. The 4cyl in the S10 was about the same size. The S10 did have a Vortec in it that was a straight/inline 4. That was definitely a GM engine and was in several other cars, the Corsair, Baretta, Corsica, Lumina, etc...I just looked it up.

I'm not sure how those can't be GM engines...

My T5 evidently came out of an S10 with a 2.2L engine, so it seems by looking at the model numbers.

What does "about the same size" mean?
Corvair sizes: 140, 145, 164".
A boxer 6 and an L4 are about as far apart as you can get.

I wish it was easier to post pictures here. You have posted on my build thread on the HAMB didn't you see engine pictures there?

'26 Roadster Build

153 Chevy II

Didn't see this, or I should say I don't remember it. I've read through that thread a few times. Looks like a great engine for the roadster.

RE: Boxter 6,
EDIT2:Now I understand what you were saying about the boxer design of the turbo 6. I'm a bit slow panic. There is a couple engines on ebay, one from 1960 that looks rebuild able. All I knew about the Corvair is that it had an air cooled engine, much like the Porsche. I 'spose you need to shoot me for that, if I was still living in Japan I'd take the sword for you. NOT!

Beater, wouldn't it be cool to build an old flat fender pickup with the turbo-6 Corvair engine and a small pickup bed on top of it? Then use the engine bay as a trunk.

EDIT: I got an email from MIBearings today, my inner rear axle bearings and races, along with carrier bearings (NO races) for the top/bottom of the carrier.

In high school a friend had a Turbo Spyder. When it had just a few hundred miles on it it got T-boned and totaled. He bought it back from his insurance company and saved the entire drive train. He put it in a VW bus and it was really fun to take to Santa Cruz over the mountains. No I don't like the Idea of putting one in a pickup you'd lose the whole purpose of a pickup. Another friend has a Corvair with a trebled 350 in the back seat area. It's nuts too. Another old friend put a complete 500 Cadillac in the back of a Morris Minor panel truck, way too crazy.

I tried, but I don't think it will get much better, and people won't post images as it's too much. I'm one of the only people that posts images.

This is not rocket science, there's many good forums around the net that are easy to post images to.



No, not at all. The way I would picture it is similar to how these guys add air tanks under the bed, but the corvair engine is a low design, and I don't think you would loose that much. I think you would have a useful little truck that could haul quite a bit if needed. I like to use a truck like a truck.

The older trucks had pretty low beds on them.

Anyway, that's what Hot Rods are all about, building what you want.

Bearings came in for the axle today. The inner rear half shaft bearings and races are Timken, made in U.S.A., but the carrier bearings are National Bearings, I thought would be Japanese but are made in Spain. I think this is better than China. I would pay extra to buy non-China parts. China can lick my third member and clean the grease out. Some things we just can't avoid China, as was the case with the outer wheel bearings I got from Jim Carter, which I paid a premium for. But at least I was able to find them.

Got the masking done. I know this takes time and maybe primer and paint is not important, but I saw that without the etching primer the paint chips off during assembly easily.

Who knows, maybe I wasted time...

Top cover, top and bottom:




Bell housing side of the main case.

Tailshaft:

You are shaming me into doing a better job of paint prep on my engine & transmission assembly.

Bah, don't be. Since I got my truck I've wanted to take it over to a place that steam cleans cars/trucks, I've had them do 2 of my vehicles in the past, and it is amazing how the under carriage looks when they get done. In this case I don't want to drive my truck that far, and to tow it over is a PITA also.

My truck has so much gunked up on the transmission and bell housing and just the axles and under carriage, pedals, both axles, et al, is covered with gunk and old grease on it. I've been looking for a pressure washer, but a friend told me you need 5000 psi to be effective, and I haven't seen any deals on them, and most are more like 2500-3500 psi that I see for sale on craigslist. I will need to get it all cleaned before I replace all the rubber in the steering system. Ball joints and all the rubber, rubber in the leaf springs, it will all need to be changed out. I think leaf spring front rubber bushings will need to be changed.

Most all of the changes I would like to make are not actually visible on the exterior, stuff like better fuel system, better brakes, sound system, removable nav system, seat, etc...this is not really stuff you see.

I haven't even decided what to do with the Axle, but am still planning the Rust Doctor if I can get a good coating of rust after cleaning the axle. I may just clean and paint it, not sure. If I use the wire wheel it pretty much gets it down to clean metal, brushing the rust off.

Got the 1st coat of primer on...


I added a 2nd coat of primer and this is the first coat of paint. I put a 2nd coat or paint but it looks about the same. No reason to bore folks with it.


While I contemplate, I want to mention that recently I bought a cordless 1/2" impact wrench, I was impressed, it's a beast at 1400 ft.lbs. Then a friend convinced me to get a 1/4" hex collet impact driver, it has a variable speed trigger at 0-350 ft.lbs.

I bought this off Ebay for $120 w/shipping, included 2 x 2.0Ah batteries and the charger with a tool bag. The 2 tools are really a game changer for me when working on my vehicles. This smaller one is only 2 lbs. without a battery. I have been waiting to upgrade my cordless, and the m18 fuel is hard to beat, the chargers even support the m12, dual charging.

A while back I jumped into those Milwaukee tools in a big way. Impacts, 4 types of saws, drill, driver, hedge trimmer, router,...The only one I don't like is the weed whacker. It is just awkward and not balanced, I have the 1/2 & 3/8 drive impacts. The 1/2" will break 1/2" bolts. The little 1/4" hex drive gets the most use. Great tools!

I was mistaken on the 1/4" collet impact driver, it's only 2000 inch lbs., so it's 165 ft.lbs. Probably a good amount when working with 80-120 ft.lbs., seems a lot of auto stuff is in that range.

I was actually hoping the string trimmer was good, my husqvarna is also awkward, it has bicycle handles.

This small one is going to be handy, I can tell. It's so light, a really great tool.

Everything is all cleaned up and ready for assembly!




Tomorrow I need to dig my hydraulic press out enough to use it. I need to get those gears off the shafts so I can clean them up. I have the main shaft to get the gears off, and the counter shaft has some as well, and the input shaft.

That looks nice. It always to start with fresh parts.
That driver will drive 1/4"X 3' lag bolts into undrilled pine. Had an electric (corded) line trimmer that was light and powerful. Worked fine on 200' of cord a pain but still better than maintaining a two stroke. I gave it away when I got this one.

Indeed it is, but this brings up an interesting topic which I would like to explain, if for nothing else but casual conversation. This is the first time for me to rebuild a transmission, but after I get done, I want to understand the entire transmission. I've never really understood any of my transmissions.

After I get done, in my mind I will be able to visualize what's happening in the trans as I shift. The other thing is I plan this to be the last time I go in and tear this apart and rebuild it. I will die before that.

Also good to understand just what it takes to do a rebuild. Today is Labor Day, and I can't help but think about the labor it takes to rebuild one of these correctly. I hope I can understand the Inline 6 at that same level one day, being able to visualize the actual parts in my head to what the engine is doing while I drive. I can kind of conceptually understand that today, but I can't visualize the actual parts as I have never taken one apart.

I think this would work to pull the 3rd and 4th gear off, I have the bearing separator behind the synchro, I have new ones to replace those.

Wouldn't you know it Beater, 1/4" collet impact driver not enough testosterone to pull it. I don't have the 1/2" in the office. Will get it tomorrow, or wait until it eats me up.

So far I have disassembled everything without a hydraulic press. I do have a small one, but I need to dig it out...

You are beyond me at this point. I had one of these apart about 20 years ago.

Beater,

The reason I'm showing this stuff is that many DIY folks do not possess all of the tools that others may have. Part of the problem in disassembling the T5 is removing the gears from the shafts, this includes the cluster, the main shaft and the input shaft. Maybe this will help to give some folks an idea on how to go about it if you don't have a hydraulic press. I'm certain this is moot for many more knowledgeable who have done this before, even 20 years ago. You would still need to tap the other side out with a dead blow. By other side I mean the other side of the main shaft. There are 1st and a slider with a synchro. WC has needle bearings under the gears along with lined synchros. Hopefully that makes sense to you. The inside of the slider, which is between 1st and 2nd I believe, is not removed. It stays on.

EDIT: The bearing puller didn't work. I will need to dig out the hydraulic press...



Previous person put this clip on backwards, small side should go out so you can get the tips in the remover. Notice how the ring pliers are facing the wrong side to remove...it's out now and I damaged one of the tips, it was a tad challenging to remove.



And that is to say this flimsy springy clips is not only difficult to get out of there (use 2 tiny screwdrivers to let you pry around and get it out), but they are known to cut people as well. Be careful with this one.



I will dig the hydraulic press out now as I don't want to beat too hard on the main shaft with a deadblow, I tried but was starting to hit harder than I like.

Making some progress, the main shaft has all gears, bearings, synchros, et al, removed. It was a piece of cake with even my cheapo HF 12-ton press. This last piece stays on, and shouldn't be taken off, it's the inside of the slider, I believe for 3rd/4th. It is broached on hot, and you should not take them off.

Don't forget that pesky ball to hold the needle bearing in place. Only WC have needle bearings inside the gears.


EDIT: Darn it, wasn't so lucky with the counter shaft. My little cheapie 12-ton HF is not up to it...

I should maybe try a bit of heat on the bearing. I'm replacing it, so no loss.

Hoping I can get back to this soon, have my hands full with another bigger pending project.

Bigger, heavier, & scattered. I hope it's working out.

Indeed it did! Everything is safe and sound in my yard now. I'm the new proud owner of an Inline 4! A Cummins 4B Inline 4!

Glad it worked out. According to my wife "Everything" is not in your yard.

Arrrggghhhh...teachers...

Does she mean because I'm less 2 wheels and tires off the trailer???

(technically she would be correct)

What she probably means is the ol' Beater has his share of stuff in THEIR yard. My school teacher wife is quick to point out that we have a yardfull too!!