Inliners International Forums General Discussion Drive Train Adapting a 1955 open drivetrain

I'm a bit lost. Are you using the '46 or '55 rear end? Are getting ready to swap to the new gears?
Will this help? http://devestechnet.com/Home/DifferentialOverhaul

Or this? https://www.chevydiy.com/how-to-disassemble-chevy-and-gm-differentials-step-by-step/

I have referenced that, and see one step I may have forgot, which was this one:

EDIT: stock49, notice this scaled the image down on the screen, but if you open in another tab it's large. So, when inserting an outside image from another server, it scales it down on the screen.



Also uploading a 640x480 attachment. Won't allow me to upload unless I resize. As a test, open the image in another tab/window, then open the attachment.

Ok, the reason is because of a couple things. First, the carrier is spun with this bolt shown above hidden in front. Everything is disoriented inside the rear end, and there are two pieces that hold the bearing race in, but those are unscrewed from the axle, so the half shafts are engages, but the stuff is not spinning freely. Lots of rust goop inside.

Got the front diff cover and pinion off.



Here's the pin, spider gears and center block (with the nuts to hold the cover on. I need a couple new nuts, they look like standard castle nuts.



Lastly, here you can see how the bearings, races and whatever you call the pieces that screw into the axle to hold the race, are all out of disarray.



I can manually lift and rotate the carrier, need to check on the circlips that hold the bearings on, inside the cage. NOTE: Crap, I just though I caused this myself by removing the caps above. But the front cover has a set of caps on it, but the rears are the ones that are removed. The rear does in fact have to come off first.

PS - ring gear is 39, pinion is 10, the stock 3.90:1, which is good. The 3.38:1 replacements I have will only work in this axle with this gear ratio I'm told by Joe at Mother Trucker Truck.

Ok, I seem to have hit a wall on these circlips that hold the half shafts in.

The following picture is from Deve's page which Beater linked to. It seems his Series 1 half shafts don't have that circlip, he just pushed the half shafts in and tink-tink...no can do on the Series 2. I tried a 90 deg. ring pliers, but can't get a good grip on it. I need to resort to a Series 2 shop manual if I can find one, I normally use a '48, but think there was a '56 possibly.

Ok, looking in the shop manual for a '55 series 2, it seems those circlips I mention must be the clips that fall out.

Maybe I need to use a BFH to knock them in...

Edit: BINGO!

Not a big, but a kinda small brass hammer:



And I got it all apart. Only need to remove brakes and parts to clean up and/or replace. Pads and drums look ok.

Now you are getting somewhere!

Do you know how to get those flanges off the end of the axles so I can get the brake plates with the parts off?

I almost have the '55 series 2 axle tore down. Maybe someone can tell me the trick to getting these flanges off the end of the axle? I think I might be able to use a puller with a bearing splitter. Has anyone done that before. I'll look at Deve's page but I didn't see anything there when I looked around.

Got most of it torn down...I'm currently stuck ponder how to remove this flange on the end of the axle on each end



Knock, knock, anyone home? This is the empty pumpkin:



Flange on end of axle, one on each end:

I can't see it well. Can you get the backing plate off without removing it? It may not come off if it is a part of the housing and holds the axle bearing.

Nope, AFAICT, it comes off and the backing plate is able to be removed. I see a seam, if you look to the right of the flange you'll see a white area, just in front of that towards the flange is a seam, it's very hard to see in this pic, but I scratched around it with a dental pick and there's a seam there best I can tell.



I don't think the plate would come off if that was the case, and I have the 4 bolts removed that hold the plate to the hub. That flange must come off. I will figure it out.

I just went out and looked at a closed and an early open drive line rear ends. On both the backing plate is riveted to the housing so different from yours. When you get the axle out of them you are done except for the seal & bearing. Do the backing plate bolts go through the back of the "flange you are trying to remove? If they do and the bolts are out try to carefully work a screwdriver between the piece and the backing plate it is just stuck. If what you are trying to remove is in the axle bore itself then it is the seal or the bearing and you may need a puller.

This may be the case, I'll try to get better pics to post.

It seems there is a seal in the center of the flange. Just went out and got a couple new pics, I'll upload them after I download to my computer and resize.

Here's the end of the axle, note the bolts, there are 4 per side. There is a seal with a tapered bearing behind it that holds the half shaft. I am not sure if I need to remove those first, I might be able to use a puller from the inside, just need to resetup the puller.



A peak inside, there's a tapered bearing behind the seal.



Here's the seam I mentioned, behind the flange:

If you can get a screwdriver behind the lip you can probably tap the seal out with a hammer. If not you will have to use a seal pulling tool and pry it out from the center.

LINK

I think the bearing is a caged straight roller that runs on the big surface an the axle. I think it will come out once you remove the seal.

Funny, I just saw this tool on Rock Auto, but for $10 w/shipping at your link, I think I'll get it, IF my pry bars won't work. I have some crow foot pry bars.

This is the one from Rock Auto.



I will need to get a seal, so even if I destroy it getting it out (like one on the T5 tailshaft), as long as I can save the bearing, or hope I can save the bearing. All the bearings seem in pretty good shape so far. Would you recommend new bearings or use the ones in the axles if they look ok? New bearings are most likely inferior...LOL

Mostly the flange kind of confused me. Looking at it now it is nothing but a taper bearing with a seal on top, race behind the bearing I am guessing.

EDIT: no, it's not a tapered bearing, it's a roller bearing with a caged race, or IOW, no race behind the bearing, it's built in.

EDIT2: I just ordered 2 rear axle outer seals and a pinion seal for the front of the diff. Missing 1 wheel stud, so ordered 4 studs and 4 nuts just to be safe. Tried to knock the rear axle seal out but couldn't see well and knocked the axle off the jack stands. I'll wait for daylight in the morning.

This might be good on the impact wrench!



Would probably pop that seal right out of there.

However, I got one of the seals out with my crow's foot, the other one is being stubborn and I need to wait until I have more time. I THINK I might be able to move the brake plate up to the flange and tap it out by knocking a hammer on the back of the plate to push the flange off, it looks like a press fit. I can re-seat the new one with a bearing/seal driver.

The seal will just tap in with a hammer. It looks like the puller ifn the picture is meant to be used with a breaker bar. Did the bearing come out?

I didn't try yet, been busy with work...I'm swamped. Might not be able to really get to it until Saturday, but still hoping I can get it cleaned before Sat.

The bearing has a lot of grease and I didn't have nitrile gloves on, so didn't try to get it out, but with all that grease I suspect the bearing will come out fine. Hoping the race does as well...LOL

I have 1 more hard line to remove from one of the wheel cylinders and will use the new cordless angle grinder on it...I tested it out, it really cleans it up nicely. I need to get the other half of the hardline off first, then use a wire wheel and clean it up good, simple green it, and rinse heavily and let it flash rust before I put that Rust Doctor on it. I want to see what the flash rust looks like, if it's even, etc...but I suspect all the grease needs to come off...the other thing is use the grease doctor on it, I might be able to use that and leave that extra hardline on it. I need to clean up all the parts and get the 3.38 r/p installed in the carrier as well. I have a bit of work, but hope to get the axle and T5 all ready before I even take the torque tube out.

Yeah, it came out today...unfortunately I horked the cage up good with the crow's foot trying to grab to something, so that will require new bearings. There's needle/roller bearings in there,.AFAICT that flange probably is not intended to come off and I don't see how you would get the plates off without removing the flange. Looks as if it was peened from the inside so that the plate won't slide off. However the flange has a seam to the outside of that peen.

Next plan of attack is to remove the brake parts from the plates and leave the plates attached...

I think the shoes and drums are ok, but would like to replace the springs, cylinders, piston seals, rubber end caps, rubber end seals, et all...Yes, the bearing and seal should both tap in with a hammer and/or bearing driver. I have set of bearing drivers, which I used recently on the T5.

Brought the carrier in and put it on the workbench to replace the ring gear, the pinion is in the front cover of the diff.

Sounds like progress to me. Good work!

I did order bearings for the rears last night. I think the inner bearings are ok in the carrier, will just clean them. I have quite a bit of cleanup to do in the meantime.

EDIT: I did just get this original 39 tooth ring gear off the carrier. Took a bit to tap it off, it was on there pretty well. Every time I take a bolt out I get a nice fresh smell of old organic oil organism growth in my nose...

This ring gear and pinion are in good shape, not sure if someone that has a 1-1/2 ton would want better ratios or not, but have seen some talking about swapping theirs. Most of the big trucks were geared at minimum 4.11:1.

Ran into a small issue, of course as I continue to rebuild this the more parts I seem to end up buying...

One of the carrier bearings was pooched. I ordered them late last night about 2:00am, and O'Reilly's will have it in by 5:00pm. These are National Wheel bearings, pretty common. Saved me about $60 from ordering them from Jim Carter... I ordered both, no use in putting the other one back. I will take this into O'Reilly's with me and if it doesn't fit the race or the face outside is not the same size, or the inside of this, I will just return it without even bringing it home. O'Reilly's is actually pretty good, you order it and they ship it the next day for most stuff, they can even get it to your local store the same day in some cases. Truly a great resource. However, you do have to pay up front and if you return it you need to wait up to 3 days for it to process your credit card refund.

(hoping they work out)

EDIT: Bzzztttttt, wrong bearing. The counter guy ordered 2 others but I'm certain they're wrong also, they don't even look like a tapered bearing in the picture, nothing like these with the race.



Here's a closeup of the damaged bearing, the bearings are flopping around and/or the cage is loose, but either way this bearing is not going back in. I ordered both of them. I probably could have ordered the outside wheel bearings from them as well. Oh well, got those from Jim Carter...still in transit.

Today was a rough day, but getting back on track. I'm pretty certain the bearings the counter moron at O'Reilly's ordered will definitely not fit, I'll probably need to get them from Jim Carter...no rush. Started to clean the axle, but thinking to swap out the pinion and finish up with the T5. I probably should have focused on the T5 first, but wanted to start tearing down the axle so I could see what parts were needed. I have a full rebuild kit for the T5.

I got the new ring gear on, which took much persuasion from a 3 lb. Garnet rawhide, some tapping and using the impact wrench. I didn't put any thread locker in, but will take each one out and add some locker and tighten to 80 ft. lbs. My impact is much higher, but the drill/driver couldn't handle it. This 1/2" cordless impact is turning out to be quite the nut cracker, for lack of a better analogy...cracks 'em in and out.



Here's the stamp on the new ring gear:



And here's the old ring gear stamp.



EDIT: I just googled for the Hyatt 159286Z on the race and get the bearing and race for $26, and for 2 of them w/shipping it's about $75 less than Jim Carter...It is less than half. The part is made by Timken, as it was originally, at least the timken numbers that these match. They ship from Reno also, so I should get them fairly quick. (<cough> UPS ground). I've always been amazed how much bearings vary in price. Per the page, the bore matches my bearing and the outer diameter matches also. The new Timken part is made in <cough> China. These might be also, but the Hyatt stuff is made in America, I believe. BTW, National Wheel Bearings are made in Japan. That's a good thing, IMO.

The current crew behind parts counters in most "auto parts stores" is largely inept, but it's mostly not their fault. They are burger flippers. The only training they get is how to look up numbers that someone else entered in a computer bank using the information given them by the customer. The data is only accessible to them by going through a check list of on screen questions. Hardly any of them are taught to use any cross reference features if they are even available. Most stores no longer have catalogs that are up to date with what parts are available and if they are the vehicles we work on have long sense passed on from the pages. Almost all of these people were born long after new cars used points or carburetors. They are not into antique cars if they are car people at all. My younger son is the commercial parts man at an O'Reilly store in Reno and he can find what is out there. His brother and I use him all the time. He is not really a car guy but he knows parts at least from the commercial end. You also can not blame the speciality houses like Jim Carter & The Filling Station for making a profit. If there was a big market for what they sell it would still be in the big stores. These are now premium parts.

The days of walking is and asking for a gasket set for a small block Chevy are long gone. The parts are still available. Accessing them is a different game. The old part number is your best hope. When I worked at CarQuest I saved a lotto old catalogs and I can still get current numbers using the old ones most of the time. By the way about 90% of all cam bearings sold in this country, no matter the brand on the box, are made by Dura Bond in Carson City, Nevada.

Beater is right on this!! I spend twice as much time at the parts counter these days because the burger flippers don't know the actual internal workings of a vehicle, ANY vehicle!!

My go to parts guy moved away and I'm trying to cultivate, (read that "educate") a couple of new ones. One of the nearby parts houses still has the old catalogs.

HEY, BEATER!! Didja' ever consider that God MIGHT have created the monkey 'cause he was disappointed in humans???

Is that a "the chicken or the egg" question? If we descended from them then they had to be first but that doesn't mean they didn't learn from us.

I know this also. So why do I continually try to buy parts from them? Cause they're fast. But fast and wrong doesn't do me any good.



I think these are the original carrier bearings. They're Hyatt 159268 bearing and race.


Kind of what Roger Waters implied with "Amused to Death".

I got the other carrier bearing off using a puller, this one is in good shape and I could reuse it if I want, but for $26 I'll put a new one in. Might as well do this right while I have the rear axle torn apart.



Same bearing, probably original:

I have a parts catalog, am I best trying to search for those numbers and hoping a replacement comes up?

I know you've worked at a counter in the past, and trust me, I should be so lucky to find a guy like you at the counter, but life doesn't seem to work out that way for me.

So many of the part numbers are obsolete in the parts catalog...

You've been a great deal of help to me, and I really do appreciate it. In fact, everyone that has helped me has been a great help to get me through my projects...and I am very thankful to all of you. That goes for here on Inliners International, H.A.M.B., Stovebolt and IG...

I wasn't lucky to have a Father to show me how to wrench on cars and trucks, so it's something I try to learn on my own. As seen with the outside seal and bearing, I'm not always successful!

You will need to set pinion depth and ring gear position to get that rear end assembly to work properly and live. Different designs require different settings. If you aren't familiar with this operation, I would suggest that you find someone to do it for you or to walk you through it!

New bearings alone will change the settings. That new ring and pinion, even more so!

Absolutely. I have some laminated shims that I can use if needed, but have about 6 or 8 Dana shims that are about .010" each. I have some spotting ink I use for scraping.

You didn't mention, but I know about setting the angle of the driveshaft, if I can to make it correct for the transmission. That's a ways ahead of myself though.

I found 2 more bearings and races for the pinion. Ordered the bearings but going to use the old races which seem to be locktited in place. I don't want to put any heat to it and the races are not in bad shape, so going with new bearings from MIBearing. I think about $48 for both front/rear pinion bearings. I think this is all the bearings, I have just about everything apart. Does this bearing #E!! ever stop???



And yes, I learned my lesson guys, this bearing seal remover came today, I used it on the impact wrench, it wacked it right out of there.

Moving right along! I'd like to see a better picture os the seal removing tool. Is that the 1/2" or 3/8" drive impact? I have both and love them. The 1/2" will break 1/2 bolts with ease. Also the 1/4 hex drive is a surprisingly powerful little tool. I never cared for battery tools until my son got some of these. I have a bunch now and use them all over the property, one power source.

Take pictures of the setup process please.

It is 3/8" drive, so I had to use a reducer, but it works good.

Here's a pic from Ebay:


And here's the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/142270137761

FWIW, I just ordered a set of these, just under $8 w/shipping/tax. Goes 1/4->3/8, 3/8->1/4, 3/8->1/2 and 1/2->3/8 in impact. I have a 1/2->3/8, but don't have the enlargers or the 3/8->1/4 in impact. Not that these won't break, but they are impact.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274895751940


I am loving mine so far. The 1/2" is so handy on this project, and I'm using my drill/driver for the lighter stuff. I have 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" adapters to grab sockets.


Me neither, but these new ones are getting very close to corded and/or pneumatic tools. Way more convenient.


Will do.

Lastly, got a call from MIBearing, they need to order the bearings so they won't be shipped until Friday, and they'll be National Wheel Bearing, which is fine by me, those are made in Japan. Since my wife is Japanese I try to support Japan when I can as they make XLNT product. Timken are often made in Taiwan and China these days...

That is a first time I seen one like that. Most had handles.

Me too! but when I saw this I instantly thought about putting it on the impact wrench, wack that out quick. It did the dirty deed for lack of a better analogy!

I have a couple other Lisle chatchkas...usually made in USA.

The 1400 ft.lbs. of torque bent it just a tad...it'll be fine I think...I don't think it was like that. Has a round plug with a square hole which is welded in a piece of sheet. On the tool it says if the tips dull, sharpen them on a grinder. I was thinking to round them over so they don't puncture the seals.

I wonder if that tool was designed to work with a breaker bar? If it works on the impact great.

Japan is better than Tiwan, Tiwan is better than China but sadly we can not avoid China. South Korea makes some good stuff. My mill & lathe are South Korean. We used to make good tools here but environmental laws killed it because Asian pollution does not affect the climate.

I'd have to agree on the breaker bar. Most seals pull out with that tool pretty easy. I have had the tip go through the tin/metal on a seal But in most cases your pulling the seal because it's bad so what would it matter right.

I've tried it both ways, even with extensions on the breaker bar. I tried with an extension on the impact, off, the bit keeps flying off eventually.

The other one had some type of orange locker on it. I'm not sure what it is but it's strong as gorilla snot.


Couldn't agree more, Japan is my pick after America and in some cases before. It depends on the product.

BTW, the WC T5 is a perfect example of how the Japanese started kicking our rears in Detroit. The Japanese cars at the time were already using needle bearings and lined synchros, GM and Ford were only playing catchup at that point. Japan's auto industry caught the USA with it's pants down, and the T5 is one such example in the transmission design. Finally they redesigned the T5 to use tapered roller bearings on the shafts, needle bearings under the gears and lined synchros which were used in the Camero and Mustangs previously, but those gears are not good for trucks, nor is the placement of the shifter. The redesign for the S10 in '93-'95 included electronic speedo and '94-'95 were WC with the gearing I have in mine. Ford created what is known as the T5z, which is also referred to as a 2.95 gear set (from what I have read), these were changes that Ford made lastly in '93/'94 time frame. GM just piggy backed on those changes for the S10, but oddly didn't put it in V8s, but put it mostly 4cyl engines. This is interesting and seems trying to solve the same issue with low powered S10s in the day, bring the RPMs down with OD. This does align with the old AK Series or AD series in that they have inline 6 engines in them, so lack the V8 HP, but have the RPM problem at highway speeds. History is fascinating...

Now, a lot of people will tell you that a truck doesn't need the WC T5, that the NWC will do just fine and is easier to adapt as you can get those with mechanical speedos. But I don't agree, mainly because you shift more than most anything else other than steering when you drive a car. I don't see how it can hurt to have a better shifter, it's not about RPM and torque for me, the WC is just a better transmission than the NWC for the reasons I've outlined.


So far no-go on any of them. I have no idea what locker they used but I bet a little heat on the seal won't hurt. The other thing is use a cutoff wheel in an angle grinder and grind a few slots around the inside diameter, then break it into pieces with pry bars.

Not a lot of options on this bearing, but had I waited to try and get the number off the other one still inside on side of the axle, I ordered them from Jim Carter.

You can't see very well, but on the top rim it's stamped CHINA. They probably pay about $5 for this bearing and sell it for $55. I did get 2 of them, so they probably profited about $100. No worries, I have saved time in the past and Jim Carter has helped me quite a bit to understand my truck. I have 2 new seals also.

Time wise it's easy to know it's gonna fit my truck, and this is a roller bearing with a race/cage, not a taper bearing with a separate race. I think this is called a roller bearing.

How does the part of the axle that runs on this bearing look?

The half shafts looks pretty good, splines are fine. I need to clean them up, but they look good. I didn't notice any wear where the bearings ride, but will check closer when I'm out in the garage. Is that a common wear area?

Some rear axles have different length half shafts, but these look to be the same. I think some of the Ford rear ends have different lengths. This makes it possible to cut down the rear axle for the difference between the long and short on the long side, and use a short shafts on each side.

Slowly it's coming together.

These are good and strong rear ends. Properly assembled you will never have to worry about it again.