Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected snowman4839 turbo build

Yeah I figured the only two transmissions I could use were the muncie and saginaw. I had forgotten that the T-10 had the same bolt pattern.

I can shift that thing pretty darn quick. You should see when I'm trying!

Snowman,
OK,
when you get it running post some vids of how fast a column shifted 4 speed is & Larry will post some vids of his floor mounted 4 speed shifts & we will compare.

Was wondering if you are going to get it going w/just the turbo you have for now & max out that combo & have fun until you get a bigger turbo.
Should be interesting to see a somewhat direct comparison of a stock engine w/a turbo added as compared to a purpose built turbo engine.

MBHD

Bumpity!!!

MBHD

Hello can someone save me the time of reading this thread for the third time...
what size wastegate was used here?
I am building a similar system and am getting ready to buy a wastegate... do I use the 37 mm or the 52 mm?
I am starting at 8 psi with a final goal of 20 psi.
Cheers!

The one I've had for my setup has been a 38mm. I'm planning on getting a 44mm or so for the larger turbo.

Should be getting the head in the next week or two. Engine is back in Memphis so I can make weekend trips to get the head on and measure the push rod length for thew new roller rockers.

I've made a few changes regarding a few parts. Instead of doing another uppipe for my Chevy 292 manifold, I'm going to switch to a SPA manifold. It also makes wastegate placement a hell of a lot easier. Has anyone ever seen one for a Chevy I6 with a T4 turbo instead of the T3? I'd rather buy one used but I've never seen a T4 one.

I'm also probably going to go with a throttle body EFI system. Most I have seen will go up to like 15psi which was only a little less than I planned on running. Plus they'll support up to 650hp which I figured would be the most I would ever make with this setup on a good day anyway. I really just want to take away the guesswork of the carb and make it a turn-key car. But the best part is that some of the EFI setups like MSD's Atomic EFI allow for the same function of a BTM box so it'll automatically retard timing in boost which saves me buying that other box.

Anyone ever looked at the differences of the clifford vs the offenhauser on a turbo setup? Just curious if it's worth the swap.

On a side note, got the car to Mississippi where I live so I can do body work on the weekends without the long drive home. Got a decent chunk done at the end of my Spring Break. Looking less and less like a beater every day.

Snowman, The injectors need to be in the ports not the throttle body, otherwise it's the same distribution as a carb.

Yes Spa makes a T4 manifold get that one.

Has anyone looked into the aussie intake I had posted about that would be a great improvement.

Tom Lowe or someone that wants to be in the parts business needs to look into being a distributer.

IMO, unless you have a 12 port head, or made dividers to act like one, your best bet is still a carb or TBI so at least all the air is generally supplied with the same fuel mix.

Going port injection will still have lean/rich cylinder imbalances, possibly worse so than a carb/TBI, especially at higher rpm's and loads when the injector is spraying fuel at a closed intake valve, unless the individual cylinder fuel trims are adjusted.

The idea of individual injectors is to get an adjustable amount of fuel to each valve.

When fuel comes out of a carb or throttle body it does not stay in uniform state that is why so much flow work is done on wet manifolds. Fuel is heaver than air, and will not make a turn as well. When I wet flowed my new intake it looked like little streams hear and there and had to make baffles to direct the fuel.

Also why direct injection is in the works.

As far as I know only a few systems really do individual trims, and to do the trims also requires sequential injection fueling.

Then the question becomes, what amount to adjust the trims by, and when.

Direct injection of course solves this, but a custom high pressure mechanical fuel pump along with controller for the ultra short pulse width window needs to be developed. A redesigned piston is also recommended to make direct injection work optimally.

Need to post some pics of the progress.

Goodluck!

MBHD

I don't know much about EFI or computers, that's why I use CARBS I know EFI is better and I believe you can control the amount of fuel injected by each injector thus controlling each cylinder better, by changing the maps. You read the plugs as on any engine or have a A/F or EGT on each cylinder.

It's already been investigated Harry, both Tom and I have each individually sought a distribution network direct with Aussiespeed. He just doesn't make enough product at a time to get a good price on his end to offer a dealer price structure that anyone can afford, that's why they are so expensive. I'm not going to buy 5 of them and be stuck with 4 for the next 5 or 6 years. He just doesn't have a good system for production in place to be conducive to have dealers at this time.

Guys, I'm talking about a throttle body electronic fuel injection system. Basically an automatic carburetor. Not multi port or direct injection. It'll bolt right in place of a carb and work in the same way, it'll just be self tuning and I can play with fuel maps instead of doing the manual carb adjustments. It seems like the best I can do without stepping it up to MPFI with the 12 port head (which I cannot afford).

I doubted the SPA manifold will work out of the box. I'll probably need to make a 30* tilt for it to sit up a bit higher so it won't hit the frame or upper control arms. I planned on it.

There isn't much to show since the last pics of the engine unless y'all care to see some in-progress body work. Still waiting on the head so I can finish the long block and do any fabrication and whatnot I need to.

Your meaning like a TBI type of injection that bolts top the intake in place of a carb. I've made adapters for them before. It's a good alternative and a lot of TBI units out there from inexpensive to billet.

Exactly. It'll do just as you are thinking. It'll be at least as good as any carburetor but much easier to make adjustments AND stay in adjustment once set. Many of them do timing control too, which is helpful for boosted applications. Usually just requires locking out the mechanical advance in the distributor, but may require a special module or external ignition box.

Just sent off the check for the head. Going to be ordering the rockers soon so I can do pushrod measurements.

Then I can figure out the manifold situation. Might have to hold off until summer to afford the SPA manifold and new turbo.

Like I suggested before, you should run it with the turbo you have & exhaust manifold.
Nothing is wrong with the turbo, correct?
I am pretty sure you did not max it out yet w/your old combo.

Not all sure the SPA manifold will fit in your chassis?

If you do use it,(the SPA manifold) you might need to run a pipe from the SPA manifold to a relocated turbo position.

MBHD

I'd rather build it how I want it now than have to tear it apart while its in the car. Plus I'm going to have to get the exhaust done for a v-Band turbine for the new turbo so I don't want to have the exhaust done for a 4 hole exhaust flange.

I'm expecting to have to build a adapter plate to angle it up so that the turbine housing won't hit the frame or upper control arm. Much easier than a new up pipe and the SPA manifold will probably flow better

Just made a day trip home for the first time in awhile. Wanted to share the pictures of the head! It looks AWESOME!

I'm working in Chicago this summer so I should be able to have plenty to finish up the engine in the Fall. All the big things that are left is the pushrods, valve cover, roller rockers, distributor upgrade, SPA manifold, new turbo, and EFI system. Maybe the new transmission now if I can afford it.

I also need to find a solution to the whole break in problem with the high seat pressure on these springs. The guy at Lunati didn't recommend anything with over ~250lbs open pressure and I think these are like 290lbs so I need to find a set of 1:1.3 break in rockers or find some way to swap in normal lighter springs (not sure if that's possible since it's set up with beehives).

Was wondering when you would get home.
I don't think you will have a problem with break in. Just do the procedure with good lube and the 20 minute run time.

While in Chicago, you might get some extra time. About 4.5 hr drive to my place.

Awesome!

What trans do you want to get?

Lunati only recommends 250 LBS open pressure? If so, why does it have 290 LBS over the nose pressure?

Hyd camshaft correct?

MBHD

Does Lunati recommend that 250 open pressure for naturally aspirated running or boosted? Most folks rather be over springed than under.

No roller cam/lifters eh?

Sorry for the confusion. I neglected to put that those pressures were the max recommended *for break in*. Tom said the behives I have installed were 125lbs @ seat and 265lbs @ .540. Since my cam has a lift of .5145, it should have a open pressure of just under 260lbs over the nose.

Lunati recommended 1.85" spring height (mine is 1.8" but with >.6" to bind), 125 seat (mine is 110lbs), and 325lbs open (mine is 260lbs) but mine are beehive and those recommendations are for dual spring setups. I'm not that incredibly concerned with it since it probably won't see past 6k.

I didn't remember the spring pressures, but I have the cam lube put on already and I got some Royal Purple break in oil with the ZDDP additives so I'm a lot less worried about it and will probably just break it in with these springs.

It's a hydraulic flat tappet. Didn't have even consider getting a roller cam really because it's an old-style motor

I'm still looking at that super t-10 with the high ratios (3.10,2.10,1.6, 1.0 or something like that) with a 2.73 or 2.9x rear end so that I can highway cruise at low RPM and so that they're spread out enough to keep the engine under load long enough to make building into boost worth the shift.

Tom - I'll get settled into my job and look into the trip.

Josh,
what are the cam specs you went with?

MBHD

I don't have the cam card with me but I believe it was .5145" lift, 219* duration @ .50", 114* lobe separation.

With specs like that for your camshaft it should idle pretty smooth, & rev to what you want it to go to.

Good choice.

MBHD

Can someone please guide me on the fuel pump modification. Previously mentioned in this thread?
Do I drill a separate hole than the atmospheric hole that is already in the housing?
If yes, I would drill on the opposite side of the diaphragm?
I use a small piece of brake line and j.b weld it in place?

Hey... I saved this site a while back. Look towards the bottom. Not a lot of info but might help you. Oh yeah, I had saved this document a while back that has good info on page 17. If I remember right, MBHD posted that document.

Ian

Thanks!! The first link was exactly what I needed!
I don't have the right reader to open the second document

Glad that's what you needed. The other document (including page 17) is a decent read anyway. Adobe Reader should open that file. Any pdf reader app seems to open it on my android phone. I'll be using this mod on my purchase at some point too.

Ian

Any more progress? I'm curious how the new head works? Did you get the pushrods measured?

Hey guys! Long time no see I know.

I got back from my summer job and settled back into school. I have the money to go ahead and get this engine finished up now!

I ordered a set of roller rockers from Tom (http://12bolt.com/250292_products/cylinder_heads_and_rocker_arms first set on that page) and I'm ready to get the pushrods measured.

I didn't quite know how to measure pushrod length with hydraulic lifters since they would collapse without oil in them. I don't have the pan on so I can't pump them up either. I read my options were either buy a solid lifter and do the measurements with that or buy a weak set of springs that won't compress the lifter. I'd rather not disassemble the head if I don't have to so I'm trying to find a solid lifter with the same dimensions as my hydraulic lifter.

I have this lifter https://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=760&gid=208 and other chevy lifters have the same 0.842" diameter but none seem to have the same seat height. I'm not sure what "seat height" is referring to for a lifter? but just need a solid version of my hydraulic lifter to check my pushrod length. Any ideas? If not, I'm going to call Lunati in the next couple days to see what they think the best course of action is.

I can also install the oil pan temporarily and prime the engine to check the length. I could also prime a lifter before I put it in (I'm not sure if the oil would actually stay in there during the check and give me messed up measurements.

Other than that, I've been doing a lot of bodywork since I've been back at school. Should be looking at buying a SPA manifold and larger valve cover (I'm assuming the stock one won't fit over roller rockers) in the near future. Turbo and carb/EFI setup soon to follow.

Why not just gut one of the old lifters and space the inside so it match's the new ones in height?

That's actually a good idea. I can pack it with grease to prevent it from compressing. I'll give it a try this weekend.

When measuring the pushrod length, I'm assuming I should fully torque the head gasket but just do it dry so I can actually use it later on final assembly right?

That'll probably squeeze out unless you have the cam at just the right position. some people spot weld the lifter to keep it at the correct height.

I've taken an old lifter and pulled the clip out and some of the guts and stuck a stack of small washers in it to effectively make a solid lifter.

It's been almost a year now. I'm still super interested in how this build turned out. Hoping for the best. I know I'd love to build a turbo 292 to see what it does in a half-ton pickup.

Bumping this up in hopes of an update. Just read all 26 pages.