Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected Custom made fuel injection intake

Mint!

Haha its pretty rough but its held in by e clips an you won't see it anyways

Hot rodding is best when it's home made. Pretty is nice but not necessary.

I live by that rule =P

Yeah i'll have a picture up of the vaccumm advance brace tonight! Mega squirt should e here soon

Randal is it easier to get the cable from the mega squirt to the relay board or to jist get them both and wore it your self?

It's far easier to purchase it if you aren't hurting for the money or adhering to a budget.

With a 8' engine wiring harness kit from DIYautotune, and a couple of the end connectors (also sold there for cheap) there is more than enough wire to make the engine harness and the relay board cable. Just have to be extra careful making sure you solder the pins to the right place. The numbers on them are hard to read.

Glad to see you check in on me beater!

I'll probably buy a harness and cable ends i was wonderin if this is the cable you can buy is it already wired for spark and fuel to the relay board?

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirt-relay-cable-p-47.html

Then you wiul just wire whats needed to the relay board

Yup! If you look at my Firebird thread, and see the pictures of my Skylark, you can see my relay board mounted on the firewall behind the air filter.

Here is an old picture of my relay board before I went full sequential injector and distributorless (aka a lot more wires). This is ALL the wiring that my V8 had for the EFI. Keep in mind, each sensor has two wires, the signal and the ground, and looking at this picture, it was actually taken during the brief time I used a 7-pin module as that is what the relay on the firewall was for (so ignore the relay!).

The blue and green wires at the bottom are the two injector driver wires, and the two black wires at the top are the +12v to the injectors (in my more recent pictures you can see I changed the wires to yellow). The purple wire is the fuel pump control wire (use it to control a relay that activates both your fuel pump AND +12v to the ignition coil). The 4 wires alternating blue and green with white stripes above the fuel pump wire are the 4 wires to the idle air control valve (IAC). Then I loose track of which color wire is which of the two temp sensors, and which three go to the throttle position sensor (it's all labeled on the board). But pictures like this make it easy to hook it back up (by color) after I re-install the engine. You can see the grey wire with the sheathing pulled back, and that is the wire from the pickup coil. Then one of those other wires is the ignition control wire output.

Awesome picture i'm super excited to get the ball rolling!

Was it hard to solder ip your mega squirt? I have soldered a bunch before just don't want to spend the money and mess it up

For a little bit more money, they can provide one for you already done.

MBHD

No, it's pretty simple, especially if you've soldered things before. I've assembled three of them now and the last one took me maybe 5 hours total to do. I set a card table up in the living room and worked on it after work while watching TV or a movie. The trickiest part is a few connections are very close to each other, so take care that they are not bridged, and having some copper solder wick to undo connections is handy.

My work station. The laptop has the assembly instructions on the screen (http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/V3assemble.htm) This is very much like LEGO's for adults.


First night, after setting up the table, etc. And actually nothing here is soldered yet, just pieces put in place.


Second night.


Third night done with a MegaSquirt 3 and expander board. This is the unit in my Firebird today.


The bottom side. The black and white wires are the 4 idle control wires.







The deal that I think is great about assembling it yourself is how much you learn about it's construction. The directions are set up so you assemble it essentially by circuit type. Power, communication, intake and coolant temp, Spark, Fuel, MAP and accessory inputs. So if something is wrong with one of the inputs, you know where to look on the board (and refer back to the assembly manual). If you read my thread, and I mis-wired my alternator on my Firebird (always wire it directly to the battery!!) and I fried my Megasquirt's power system. I opened the case, checked the power circuit's components with a simple digital multi-meter, replaced a couple capacitors and diodes, and I was back in action. I knew exactly where to trouble shoot. Having a relay board on my Firebird probably would of prevented the toasting of my MegaSquirt. I like the extra layer of protection the relay board provides.

The key take away is, this isn't rocket science. One thing though is, if you solder it yourself, you'll want to purchase one of the Stim/Jim Stim's too. Which is additional costs. If you plan on possibly doing more than one build, its worth getting the stim, if you think this will be the only megasquirt you'll likely ever use, it may be worth saving your money on the stim and put it towards a pre-built unit. I've built three, so the cost of the stim has been amortized over three units and I'll probably build at least one more if not two (my Centurion, and possibly one other car). Or if you don't mind the cost, I recommend assembling it yourself.

If I can do it.........

Have not checked lately, but how much more for one already put together for you?

MBHD

Complete 445 unassembled 279

The way I would look at it is if you have a problem and you soldered it together, they more than likely won't warranty it. If you purchase it ready to go and have an issue, they probably will warranty it.

Or, if there is a problem with it after it's assembled you fix it yourself and save the week and a half sorting out the shipping, the testing time, etc.

There are only three or so things that can fry the processor, and it's spelled out in the assembly guide. And also as it's being assembled there are testing steps, aka "Do not proceed until 'X criteria' is met." So by the time you finish assembly it's going to work or you only have to back track five or so steps.

I'm probably approaching 100,000 miles on my self-assembled MegaSquirts. 80,000+ on the Skylark alone and the only time I've had a hiccup was with my recent alternator wiring screw up with the Firebird, which would of toasted anybody's fuel injection computer and likely wouldn't be covered under a warranty. I had it back running that same night because I just opened the assembly guide and started doing the power system test, like it was a new build, and back tracked it from there.

I'll look and see if i can find someone selling one localy but if not i think i will still buy a unassembled kit i'm not extremly worried about a waranty specially if i can fix it by testing

So if i am running the reluctor from the hei do i need to run a crank siglan as well? And do the reluctor points have to be ground down besides one or just as is?

Also will of know that its registering at cam speed not crank speed? I seen in your diagram it was one or the other

Nope, no crank signal needed for batch fire. It will trigger the ignition and fuel off the distributor reluctor just fine.

I'm a little confused about settin up batch fire i know its a little ways down the road but still i ordered my MS 2 v3 on saturday with a relay board hopefully it will be here this week so i can get started on it i honestly need a more reliable carb than the one that i have i made it work for break in purposes but it just isn't going to fly for down the road type tests lol got a long way to go and a short time to get there.. (Whistles tune)

Batch fire only needs one trigger.
Sequential needs two triggers.
Sequential was made to further reduce emissions.
Batch fire & Sequential will give you the same amount power output.


MBHD

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/sequential-fire-vs-batch-fire-injection-47271.html

Batch fire will get you 95% of the HP. Sequential with AFR balancing will get you another 3%, proper injector timing phasing will get you another 2%.

Basically on a 900HP engine you can pick up another 40HP with sequential and proper injector phasing. In tight racing classes that can be the difference between winning and losing. On the street, not so much difference. There are obviously some small variances in the percentages gained depending on the engine and horsepower output, but my friend has had pretty repeatable results with racing Hemi's and engine master's competition. Both competitions where every last HP is searched for.

For the street it is tough to beat the simplicity and improvement over a carb that is gained by TBI injection.

http://www.vems.hu/files/Port_sequt.txt

http://www.sdsefi.com/techseq.htm

Sequential injection attempts to only spray fuel while the intake valve is open for the cylinder that is about to fire, which in most cases is only possible at low engine speeds between idle and low speed cruising. It can have benefits in emissions, drivability, and fuel economy at these low engine speeds.

Batch injection (which is what the MegaSquirt-I and and most MegaSquirt-II versions do) does not attempt to spray only when the valve is open. It's a fact that at higher engine speeds you won't have enough time to spray all fuel while the valve is open, making this somewhat pointless, particularly for a performance oriented application. At these higher engine speeds 99% of sequential systems (exceptions being race only systems with super massive injectors) cannot spray all of the fuel needed while the valve is open anyways, and sprays it both while the valve is opened and closed, very much like a batch system such as the MegaSquirt I and II. We've dyno tested several cars with using batch fire and sequential injection on the same motor. Peak power was the same without using individual cylinder tuning. The sequential fire setup did run a bit more smoothly at idle and at light throttle angles, however.

That said, the MegaSquirt III system with the MS3X Expansion board or MS3-Pro will do full 8 cylinder sequential fuel and ignition. If you're looking for the absolute best possible emissions and fuel economy, as well as the ability to fine tune each cylinder individually, then the MS3 system is the way to go.

There is generally no significant performance difference with a sequential system over a batch system unless you use individual cylinder tuning. There can be minor emissions and fuel economy benefits at very low speeds though. If your tuning budget allows for individual cylinder tuning, it may be possible to pick up 3-4% more power depending on how much cylinder to cylinder variation your engine has.

So basically, if you have a poor designed intake manifold that gives more air to some cylinders, or cylinder heads flow unequally, you could gain more power, but,, if all cylinders are getting the same & equal amount of air, you are not going to benefit any power gain from using a sequential over a batch fire F.I.

Hopefully my ms 2 gets here soon so i can start assembling it and get the engine running again i need a push of motivation as the trucks has been sittin as i rebuild it its tough to want to work on it till i see others driving theirs

So i got my ms ll in and relay board got the relay board together last night a heavy base stand with gater clips and a magnifying glass helped a lot! Was starting in the main board and it asked about jumpers for a iac stepper motor? Thats what i need help on and the ignition stepper they have umteens amout of info and you really have to dig haven't been successfull finding any diagrams yet

That is why I suggested getting am assembled unit for only $166 more.
Don't have to go through the hassle.

Good luck with that.

If you stick with it, you will get it done.

MBHD

Its not a hassel at all and even with the assembled unit this might be an "option" that you would have to solder on anyway..

I guess to be more specific is do j need to hook up the jumper for the iac stepper it couldn't hurt?

And on the ignotion with the reluctor running the spark do i hook up sj10 to ign

Or do i hook it up from sj10 to ignin woth ignoit to ign on the pcb it is step 22 on the v3 assembly manual

Maybe randal woll chim in before i'm in work

Thanks in advance

Sounds like you're using the same set up as I am.

The four wires electrical taped together are the IAC wires. You can see the jumpers in the picture. The long yellow wire above the IAC wires is the JS10 to IGBTIN, then jumper IGN to IGBTOUT. Then at the bottom jumper TachSelect to VRIN. And in the middle of the board TSEL to VROUT.


IMO, ignition setup is by far the hardest thing on the MegaSquirt, fortunately 99% of the setups can be set just like I have it jumpered because the VR circuit can process Hall sensor's just fine.

Randal

thanks so much for the photo i had started assembling the board and just as i got to that step and started searching you came on and posted saved the night got the power circuit set up!

Randal

thanks so much for the photo i had started assembling the board and just as i got to that step and started searching you came on and posted saved the night got the power circuit set up!

hey randal i am running a mac computer and hyperterminal doesn't work as it is a windows product are you using windows? also my computer that is a windows doesn't have a db9 connector or a db25 are you using usb to db9 adapter which one and what driver?

thanks for any more help you can give i really appreciate it

also do you have to have a jimstim do to all the comtests and such or can you power the ms without it some how?

You can probably do the power and com testing without the stim, but I am unsure how.

I use a USB to serial port adapter. I'm not sure which one, but it was about $20, so I'm sure as long as it's not like a $2 chinese special it ought to work fine.

I use windows. XP, Vista and now Windows 7 are the three operating systems I've used. I know zilch about Apple stuff, but starting with Vista Microsoft stopped supplying Terminal as a standard installed program, so the last two I've assembled I've had to search the internet for one and I think I used a trial version last time that expired after a month.

Well i am just having one heck of a time trying toget the communication cable to work plugged away at it a bot last night so i can test the mega squirt i don't think i have the communication com/ driver set up right

Is this on the Mac? I don't know crap about Mac's =/

Perhaps triple check the various parts installed for the communications circuit are in the right place and diodes and capacitors are in the right orientation and move on. The next step is with the MS chip in place and using the boot loader and Tuner Studio. Then you just need to know what the comm port number is and tell TunerStudio. The bootloader will search for the comm number if you tell it too. Worse case, if you can't get it to communicate at that point then you back track through the comm check. If it communicates then, then you know it works. No Hyper Terminal needed if it works.

Just watch for the warnings in the power circuit assembly about what can fry the processor and double check those conditions aren't happening before installing the processor. There is ONE pin that needs power for the MS2 chip and not the MS1 and mixing them up would fry an MS1 chip. Otherwise, I think it's pretty straight forward.

I finally got it the driver for the cord wasn't working right got it through the comm test and tuner studio got the chip flashed and all the way up to step 50 then i went and whacked some golf balls and relaxed hopefully i get off work early tomorrow and can put some serious time into it tomorrow feel good about it And i ammvery excited!

No ended up using a windows based laptop