Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected 4200 turbo project...

I needed somewhere to hang 2 more injectors/hole and the stock intake being plastic doesn't take to well to tig ...

Once the boost is >7psi the fuel controller will taper off the pump gas (stock injector location) and start injecting 100% methanol. At 9 psi the gas injectors won't be fueling the motor as the fuel will come from the 2 horizontal methanol injectors.

Normally you want the injectors to spray the back of the intake valve to get good vaporization, under boost though the air is hot enough to vaporize the methanol which will cool the charge air.

8 PSI on gas was fun, looking forward to turning the wick up... toward 20 <<< go hunting for LS6 powered vettes..

Just remember, Methanol's some pretty toxic stuff (have a read of the MSDS if you haven't, makes MEK look downright civil). Not as bad as Propylene Oxide, or Hydrazine, but not good either.

Guys making serious HP are using methanol especially when turbo charging.

Methanol is what cars on "alcohol" are using.

MBHD

Gotta wear PPE when handling the stuff, its absorbed through the skin.

Dress up in your "moon suit" and go fast!

Yeah, fumes are no good either (and let's not go into drinkin it ).

I measured a couple of head volumes today:

2006 chamber with a 0.004 surface cut 69cc
2006 intake runner mild port - 190cc
2006 exhaust runner ported (to get 72/74% flow it needs to go bigger)- 93cc

2002 stock exhaust runner 81cc

I've read up on your build pretty freaking awesome. I've got a 48 Chevy truck waiting in the wings maybe I'll drop that new 4200 in there. I checked out your YouTube video too, say those are s10 wheels, that isn't a regular cab s10 chassis under that body is it? I've measured it out at its really close and is what I'll likey use when I get going on this project. I really like how the truck looks without running boards and in flat black. Keep up the good work!

The frame is a '54 with a '78 nova front clip installed. The 9" has aftermarket axles with chev bolt pattern. The wheels are from a 3rd gen camaro.

Another piece of the puzzle...

This replaces the VVT drive to allow aftermarket sequential engine management to get a off/on cam sync signal using the OEM cam sensor.

Used in conjunction with the GM adjustable cam gears for the ecotec (same gears for the atlas).

I put up a few other AD truck parts on stovebolt.com that are not engine related. Kind of neat stuff.

Finally got the cams degree'd in ..



Hope to have the rest completed within 2 weeks.

Wow, I'm still building a chicken house and sticking tiny parts together! That looks cool.

MS testing time...
I'm doing some garage testing too.. got a couple of items to test and sort out:

Completed - 1) a new MS3.0 Main board & MS2 processor - works on the bench ok - going out to plug it into the truck.

Completed - 2) convert to MS2extra code... still using ford EDIS module and EDIS coil pack.



#3 Completed... I'll post a quick video later. It took a couple of good backfires until I sorted a wiring issue out BOOM BANG BOOM Then fixed it and hit the key - instant start! Much less cranking than when I'm running the EDIS module.

3) then convert to direct fire (coils fired directly from Megasquirt without the EDIS module) the coils - 3 pairs of 2 coils - coil on plug but wasted spark mode using the 36-1 timing wheel pick up that now triggers the EDIS module reconnected into the new MS box so I get direct timing input - fire the motor and set the base timing. This will prove the ability to fire the stock GM COP coils.


On to the the biggie..

I sent the engine timing diagram tonight to the software dude to get an idea for an initial setup.. hopefully by tomorrow I have an answer. Then out to the shop to test... more BOOM BANG BOOM WHOOSH flame...


I'll install the MSextra test code into the new MS box - connect one coil (#1) with a spark plug just grounded on the outside of the motor, so I can get a timing light on the short plug wire between the coil and spark plug. I'll connect the new MS box to the GM crank trigger sensor.

Then I'll re-connect the original MS box installed running the ford EDIS module with the timing control input to the EDIS box unplugged I'll get fixed timing at 10* BTDC.

Then I'll run the motor on the EDIS box and orginal MS box - check the timing using the timing light to see where is its at.

With the engine running I'll try and get the MSextra test code triggering off of the GM crank trigger to sync up and fire the one coil at the right time - I'm guessing it'll take a software fix or 2 to get it right.

Once all is good then I'll connect the new MS box with the MSextra beta test code up to all 6 coils as in #3 above and run the motor off of the GM crank trigger and the 6 coils in wasted spark mode.

What this will do is free everyone who wants to run this motor from the GM electronics ( and Westers Garage choke hold on modifying the stock GM electronics) and eliminate the need to install a custom trigger wheel. the only mechanical mod will be to install cable type throttle body.

This will bring the cost of conversion down a chunk. A pre-built MS that will run this motor is pricing out about US$400.

Once I get this s/w tested I'll be able to supply a good tuneup file for the MS that folks can install (its easy - if you can open a windows file and click 1 button in the s/w your good to go). If all the wiring and fuel supply is good turn the key == brummm.

Video uploaded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs3f5lsVQ90

Sorry for the crappy video quality - still getting used to the camera.

marc,
nice to see it is running! looks kinda like a science project or some of my college projects. at this point it looks alittle daunting , especially to anyone who knows nothing about electronic gizmos. there is room in there for a few more loose wires. enough teasing.
sounds good though, have you ran it much more? i'd like to know some of the timing basics. tom

Thats looking real good... is that more or less plug and play ecu at the moment? Eg, stock GM pickup as well as edis wasted spark? If so I am very interested in your setup... and would be ready to order necessary stuff for the MS pretty much right away =)

When I read that post and watched the video I felt like the 13th Warrior sitting around the campfire with the Vikings. As time goes on I understand more and more of what is being said about MS and electronics in general. You are really making the 4200 a more viable choice. Good work Marc!

The GM trigger is still not proven as I write this. I was triggering the MS off of the 36-1 trigger wheel that's mounted on the front of the crank. The 36-1 wheel drives the EDIS system.
If your in a hurry I'm have a 36-1 trigger wheel setup on order for the turbo motor and can increase the qty.

Direct cost from the CNC shop

EDIS wheel = $350 ea
Support Brkt = $125 ea
Standoffs = $60 for 4

The reason why I'm still adding a crank trigger wheel is this:

I'm testing a beta version of the sequential system and it need the 36-1 trigger wheel to run it.

The MS sequential system does not support the GM 7 notch crank trigger found on the 4200 (if you managed to find a 2007/08 motor then it does as the later motors use a 60-2 trigger like the LS series engines). Its a s/w thing. Eventually it will happen.

nice to see it is running! looks kinda like a science project or some of my college projects. at this point it looks alittle daunting , especially to anyone who knows nothing about electronic gizmos. there is room in there for a few more loose wires. enough teasing.
sounds good though, have you ran it much more? i'd like to know some of the timing basics. tom [/quote]

We have a lot ice and snow behind the shop so I haven't driven it. Its nearly the same configuration that we ran last year on the Black Opel on the salt so I would not see any issues with the install. The only difference is the Black Opel used the EDIS coil pack instead of the COP coils - the result is the same.

I actually loaded the Black Opel tune up file to get the ignition parameters ( just quicker) then overwrote the Opel's fuel and spark table with my own from the stock turbo motor.

With the EDIS system the engine cranks a lot longer before it fires, I was surprised how fast it fired up!

GM trigger try #1 - boom bang boom .....

Need to gather more info for the s/w guys to figure out whats going on. Ran the battery down - so its on charge .....

Try #2 tomorrow.

you will get it. just keep feeling your way thru the cloudiness.

can you explain alittle about the stock gm wheel?

efi-diy, You've got me very excited here... if there was a virtually plug and play (I dont mind having to adapt harnesses etc, just dont want to have to fumble my way through getting the motor running with MS. You get that sugga done, and I'll be ready to buy =)

Good luck, you'll get it.

GM ignition - try #2

Hooked the lab scope up and found the s/w is firing the coils advanced and missing 1 firing pulse.... Sent Mr. Software guru a few pictures of the scope display... waiting for a code update.. I figure it'll take another 2-3 s/w mod's to get this sorted... This is really raw development work and Sh*t just happens.

Well I managed to pick one of these babys up... it was a 2005 with 19k mi... so I just got to find me an 06 head. Looking very much forward to your progress =) Also, recommend a particular GM service manual for engine? Just get a Trailblazer FSM?

Quick update - no real progress, waiting for a s/w fix.

In the mean time I'm starting on getting the MS sequencer beta box testing underway. This was supposed to come after the MSextra test but here we are.

Its been -25* here for the past 5 days - to da** cold to head out to the shop for more than 10 min's. Its supposed to warm up above freezing for the weekend so I'll get at the sequencer then.

Some progress ... finally have the intake runners in metal...
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I like it!!!!!!!!


MBHD

Quick update...

Received my 46# gas injectors and converted the injector harness plugs tonight - basically its down to installing a gutted PS pump << need it to run the serpintine belt and installing the GM intake. The aluminum one isn't quite ready yet. This should all be done this weekend. What left then is to build a EFI harness that not part of the truck so I can goto the dyno. Getting very close.

Cool, good luck with it.

Too quick on the trigger I guess, I meant to add a at the end of the last one.

I'd still be curious as to what you'd sell a pre built/mapped megasquirt... I've been slacking a bit on my 4200... but want to get it going again...

Still need to get the internals going, but ecu for me at first is most important... and as of now, it looks like I'll probably have to go for something like AEM full standalone... just because people know them etc... pretty common.

So, I'm a little confused. I've read all these 4200 posts over and over but I semm to be missing some things. I do not know want a mega-squirt is.Please define. I am also having difficylty locating Metric bolts that do not cost an arm and leg plus my first born, any ideas? How much help would a factory manual be? I was "gifted" and '04 4200 from my son. It is from a Olds Bravada. Will this still work, or should I be looking for a newer one? Is there going to be a kit that will put this thing in my Sub without recreating the whole thing?

'49 Fleet
'49 Sub

The 4200 needs an ECM (engine computer) to make it run unless you want to go through the exercise of building a carb manifold and adapting a distributor.

If the engine is complete with the COMPLETE GM harness including the stuff from under the dash and you have the GM ECM then use it.

Megasquirt is an aftermarket DIY ECM http://www.msefi.com

As for metric bolts mcmaster-carr. Or the wreckers.

The '04 will be fine for what you want to do. No kits - its all scratch build.

Just the belt, fabricated the harness and install the throttle body left...

I'm really curious what kind of bark this engine is going to have....

We won't know till you post video, you'll know before that.

efi, what cam profile did you go with? I had a guy that was pretty big in the supra world recommend 264/264 if I had the clearance for it. Does comp cams have any, or do they just do custom workfor it?

Also, another link I had to a pdf you hd somone was bad regarding that... newer links?

<<<< ?????????

The cams were custom ground using billet cam blanks I supplied by Comp. The cams are 220@050 and 226@050.