Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected turbo 292 write up

Tom

I run a 2400 stall convertor with kelvar clutches in my Plymouth that you saw at the convention, even pulling the roadster on the trailer behind it the highest tempature I have ever seen was 145 F. I only lock in fourth but never notice any slippage in other gears. Once in forth it stays locked unless drops below 23 mph, shifts or I brake. I had a vacumm control on convertor when I first built it but had to much shutteling so changed to an electronic control. I run a 3.50 nine inch ford with 4 wheel disks and a power booster. 11" on front and 11.4 on rear with full line pressure to all four wheels. I have no rear lock up problems even on a panic stop. I was a little worried about trans temps when I built the Plymouth since 700R4 seem to be a little temp sensitive so I did three things 1 a good cooler 2 an external filter 3 a tempature gauge so I can watch it. Four years all types driving also pulling trailer no problems. I also averaged 20 MPG towing home from Iowa. My Plymouth weighs almost the sme as your Elcamino.

big bill I.I.#4698
I tried to convince him of a higher stall,but no use, he thinks the trans will run hot w/that much stall,& get poor gas mileage.

MBHD

I dont have any interesting inline six videos. Have many on U-tube with different exhaust configurations but thats more goofing around than anything. Now if this was a bent 8 forum, I gots a couple interesting stories.

went to the track last night. what a great evening, mild temps, track was warm and racing started at 630 pm. there was a small group of racers and i went thru 8 times. i sure i could have easily made 10-12 runs.
ran 3 times to see what the converter would change for me. all i noticed for the 3 runs was a .1 reduction in the 60' times. so from a 2.2 to a 2.1 or so.

with the next 5 runs i changed the rear tires for the stickier set and lighter rims. the car now will tick off 2.0 60' times consistantly, but that was it. i was cutting some really good lights, generally from a .075- a .3. there was 1 that was .003 . all said and done i am maxed out at a 8.805 in the 1/8@ 79 mph. our track is a 1/4 mile track but they will not let us run it because the floods wrecked the far end.

this winter i am going to modify my head to open up the ports and gain back some more performance. still going to go with the dividers in the ports as they help witht the fuel injection.

made a few guy's scratch their head as to why a straight 6 can blow away the v8 camaros and mustang gt's. one mustang i ran would take me off the line and then i would just walk by him waving the whole way. asked him if he was taking off hard and the letting off. he just grumbled. tom

Tom,

When I was at BVille I left some interesting items with Jerry W. that could help your air flow on the intake side...

Try a trans brake, it also wont load your suspension up like when you try to footbrake it, and will make your suspension react more naturally!

People that I have talked with,a trans brake is not a good thing to have on a 7004R. They like to blow up parts.

I had told Tom, to dial in more pressure to his rear brakes w/his proportioning valve when he is @ the track just to see how if the rear brakes will hold & build boost pressure.

If he cannot build boost from the start of a 1/4 mile blast,it will never ET that well.
He has slicks now,but no boost build up on the launch.

My Syclone does consistant 1.78 - 1.82 60 ft w/the original 1991 original dried out tires.But,,, I can build 5,10,15 psi of boost pressure on the launch.

MBHD

I just tested the stall on my parents 1999 Olds Intriege.
3.8 V-6
It stalls to 2600. Wow & to think the factory put that high of stall in & still knock down 28-30 MPG & not overheat the trans!!!!!

MBHD

Isn't that a locup converter? Weren't they variable stall (computer controlled) by then as well?

it is a lockup convertor. i tell it when to lockup. they are not variable stall though.

hank, after driving the car around quite a bit. have noticed a few things about the convertor i have.

taking off at wide open is great. engine rpms pop right up, performance is better.

taking off at part throttle feels weird. engine goes right to about 2k rpm and stays there while car slowly accellerates. it is like it slides thru the gears. i do not like that. if anyone has driven a forklift around and noticed how the engine revs and the machine does not move quickly will know what i mean. maybe my convertor has a higher stall. but it sure feels slippery at low throttle take offs. when the lockup hits then all is ok. for the person in town though i feel the trans would get real hot. tom

Tom,
it sounds like your converter might not be that efficient as it could be.
What brand torque converter did you end up installing?
I think there are a few tricks you can do to the trans to help with the slashy/slippery shifts.

Up to a certain stall,you can use a standard trans,but after about 2600-2800 stall range ,some people recommend higher trans oil pressure,.501 valve,& other things.plus a shift kit always helps. I am not a tranny expert,but my friend is.

If you can hold the brake pedal,,, really mash on it & try to build up boost,what rpm does it go to before the wheels start breaking loose? That should tell you approx stall.

The trick thing to do on Syclones & Typhoons is to lockup the torque converter as soon as it shifts into second gear.

It droped my ET .2-.3 tenths, & about 3 MPH.
The 4.3 V-6 in my truck is just a torquey engine that cannot rev @ all,you really do not need to go more than 4500-4800 max RPM

Here are the V-4.3 cyl head flow tests numbers.

BOTH sets of numbers are with 2.02 and 1.60 valves.
Stock heads have 1.94" intake 1.50" exhaust.

before, intake: 65,133,163,174,178
before, exhaust: 51,102,131,139,141
Pretty weak,,,,cam is like .370 lift.173 degrees duration @ .050

Just curoius where you installed the knock sensor,any pics?

MBHD

Tlowe,


Found the flow of the stock 1991 4.3 V-6 1.94" intake Syclone head.

The stock heads flow:

(164 @ .500" - Stock)

How does that compare to the 1.72" or 1.94" siamesed head?


MBHD

Not so good! But one thing is different. The individual runners help by design to get a better (even ) fuel air distribution to each cylinder.
You must have been looking for a long time. Spend some time getting that camaro on the road. Tom

Tlowe ,
could you post a quick reference of what the stock 1.72" & 1.94" intake valve siamesed head flows? @ .500

I was not looking for a long time,LOL,I just was looking @ old posts & found it quickly on another forum.

Dont get me more upset about my Camaro, ,,,having kids & a wife w/a different work schedule leaves little to no time for my projects.

Hopefully when my kids get a little older I can have them help me.
Thanks
MBHD

Too busy right now for that. Got a engine to dyno. Tom

Been a while since I been here, what happend to your 292?

That turbo 292 is still running strong. No problems with it, lately. Hard to keep the mice out of that Elco in the winter. I hate mice!

You got any inline action going on?

No inline projects for me right now....

good to see your still making head way on the turbo inline engine. Whats the goal with the 250's hp/tq or 1/4 mile time?


Good luck!

1.72" intake valve stock head.Numbers By Tlowe
050" lift 27.3 cfm
.100" lift 52 cfm
.200" lift 103 cfm
.300" lift 149.5 cfm
.400" lift 164.6 cfm
.500" lift 168.5 cfm

Expect the same airflow on 1987-1995 SBC truck heads ,those are the worse heads for flow,,but even w/that bad aiflow,my Syclone has run 12.0 in the 1/4,just goes to show,when you are forcing air through highly restrictive cyl heads, it's still possible to run OK.
Side note,,guys w/there Syclones swapped to better flowing 1996 & newer Vortec heads & run approx 1/2 second faster in the 1/4 mile,so good flowing heads,are a must if you want to go fast.

Just a quick reference
MBHD

Looks like it is real close to the stock 1.72" valve head with the bolt bosses still in the head.

Yes it is,,,but look @ the Syclone head has a 1.94" valve,talk about lousy airflow.

Yeah, thats not very good in comparison is it. But like you said, it still does good when its blown.

Read all 15 pages and have a few questions 1., is there a turbo cam available over the counter now? 2. could a V6 ECM be used to control the injectors for a tow rig. 3. Can an inline pump provide enough fuel pressure for the injectors? If I use this setup in my '58 sedan delivery they have a one year only gas tank shared with the wagon only, so no aftermarket tanks.

You are a quick reader!

I have the cams instock.

The factory GM computers would not allow you to really tune the engine. The Holley one I use allows plenty of tuning capabilities. And it is easy to do.

I use a inline fuel pump for my application, it will supply all the fuel ever needed. You will most probably need add a sump to the tank to get rid of fuel slosh. Use the old fuel line for the return.

Here is a update for everyone else.
After dynoing the 292 and the 250, I have finally got some time to work on the ELCO.

A reminder, My engine is multi port fuel injected and I found that it ran better with divider plates added to the intake ports. This inturn made the intake port window too small, yet the car responded well and recorded a time of 13.8 in the 1/4 mile. This is a street car, just weighed this week @ 3700 with me in it. It is ran down the track in drive and shifts at 4800 RPM

Well now I have machined a head with a much larger intake port. It is taller and wider. A much better designed divider is installed and the engine was running fine before the convention but I was chicken to drive it 1100 miles each way going 75 mph not broken in or untested. Over the last 2 weeks, many miles have been put on it. The tune has been improved and let me tell you , the engine has changed! Used to run 11-12 PSI at full boost with old head, now it runs 7 PSI and has more power. Hope to take it to the track Fri night for test and tune runs. Will also see about getting that boost pumped back up. Tom

BEN10
My son on computer,he's 4 ,sorry guys.

What are the specs on your cams you sell? I was the high bidder on your 1.94 head on ebay this weekend but didn't reach the reserve. Could you tell me the reserve to see if I'm getting close? I've pretty much decided to go with the dividers on my engine also. So far anyway. Thanks Harry.

PM me. Thanks Tom

Been following this thread for a long time. I would have thought that given the engines fairly large displacement coupled to a turbo and proper trans that even an Elco would be running minimum high 11s in the 1/4 mile.
What are your expectations if you have all the Drag Race tools, transbrake, slicks, proper suspension. I mean i know its a street car, but what do you think it will eventually run?

Don't feel bad,I know exactly what your thinking.


MBHD

Need pics of the mods,this post is worthless w/out pics IMO.

MBHD

Fred,
Eventually, would like to see this Elco in the 12's. I have another Elco to be kept on a strick diet and setup more for racing. Who knows, Harry (Turbo6) has his car in the 9's. Tom

Too busy working in the shop. Teaching the kids how to wrench.

Here are pics of the modified port as installed on my car. The divider was made by Strokersix from this BRD
Modified intake port



Stock intake port

Modified Clifford intake


Notice how the injectors aim straight at the correct port. I also had to make my own intake gaskets from material ordered from McMaster Carr.
Cranked up the wastegate last night, could not test because of rain. Maybe tonight will get to. Fri evening is test and tune at track. Tom

How come they don't look like they are centered up in the ports?same with the cut-out on the intake?Or is it just they way the photo's were taken?

The dividers are centered on the head bolt axes.

Larry,
It may just be the angle of the pic. Tried to port the intake to be symetrical. And as Strokersix has said the divider is centered on the bolt boss hole. The port is much larger as seen in the pics than the stock clifford intake entry. There is not much material left to seal with a gasket, thus custom cut gaskets of good material. There is only about 3/16 of gasket sealing in the upper corners of intake port. So far so good.

well that is what i thought but it just didnt look that way.for the way one side of the port looks much straighter then the other.Looking at the second photo.(In small copy espcialy).
Anyway no bigge.

Now Larry,,,,
can you cut straight & center w/a sawsall?

That's a joke son!.Don't you get it? LOL FogHorn Leghorn